| gmidonnet on 29 Oct 2000 22:37:07 -0000 |
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| RE: [Nettime-bold] Re: <nettime> Nader is important: get rid of him! |
First of all Gore is not good choice. Actually he is terrible. He may be, in some areas, better than Bush, and in other areas worse: i.e. he is for one of the greatest abrogations of individual rights ever put forth in this country, and that is Hate Crime Legislation.
It is shear foolishness to vote for the lesser-of-two-evils. You are still voting for evil and 2 years later, 4 years later, 40 years later you are still voting for evil. Yes compromise is necessary, but so is action.
As far as the devastation of Alaska and a woman's right to choose -- that's a little hyperbole isn't it? Regarding Alaska, it has to pass through Congress and that will take 2 years and the electorate will have plenty of time to get involved. And adding a new pipeline from Alaska isn't an extreme position (unfortunately it will probably be popular) nor will it "devastate" Alaska.
As far as the right to choose, as a worse case scenario Bush will appoint justices who are against Roe v Wade (which as you know is full of holes); the appointees will have to pass a Senate confirmation committee and a vote on the floor. It will then take several years for an abortion case to reach the Supreme Court, and since Bush will be putting in a conservative judge -- which means someone who is for judicial restraint -- the judge may still back Roe v Wade because, as a conservative, he now considers Roe v Wade an important judicial precedent that cannot be lightly overturned.
And, worse case scenario continuing: After Roe v Wade is overturned, states have to pass laws making abortion illegal, and it will happen in a few states, but in the overwhelming majority of states abortion will remain legal. And you KNOW that. So stop panicking.
Better to panic about the new wave of anti-individual nonsense coming through the pipe, that is the push of Hate Crime Legislation, than whether Gush or Bore is the next president.
Gilbert Midonnet
-----Original Message-----
From: joy garnett [mailto:joy@firstpulseprojects.org]
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2000 1:47 PM
To: nettime-l@bbs.thing.net
Subject: [Nettime-bold] Re: <nettime> Nader is important: get rid of
him!
Ivan Zassoursky wrote:
> [also To: campaign@votenader.org, CC: naderletters@moveon.org]
>
> <snip>
>
>
>
> Vote for Nader. It will make you feel better.
>
> ivan zassoursky
> __________________________________
great, just what we need: a bunch of righteous idealists running around *feeling
better*. After Bush gets elected and sets about the devastation of the
environment in Alaska, the right of women to choose, and a host of other things
we all hold to be dear, (not to mention a host of policy we don't even
understand or think about). I'm sure those feeling better might start to feel
pretty bad... Don't be fooled by Nader: he isn't so different from these other
guys running. He'll do anything to get ahead in some way, just like them,
including undermining Gore and his campaign. Afterall, he *is* a politician.
Nader's appeal to progressive-minded, well-educated, disenfranchized liberals
is manipulative and misleading; it will make a difference, one very big
difference, if Bush gets in. This is so obvious and the appeal to 60s nostalgia
so pathetic and wrong-headed you'd think any toddler could point it out at a
distance. (And I used to really look up to Susan Sarandon); what we need is
pragmatism, not dreamy 60s revival idealism that will remain just that. One
thing that would help in this fight would be to face up to what a simplistic,
right-leaning, puritanical culture this really is; the dream of Nader is
exciting, it's radical, but it's a dream. I don't buy that voting for him is an
expediant measure --not for an instant. As for *fear*: people are afraid of Gore
because he is intelligent, and an aristocrat (god-forbid) and therefore not one
of them. He represents a classic ego-threat to the American Puritanical
Everyman...
Keep the Republicans OUT.
Just do it.
This is a crucial election.
Don't throw it away. Don't vote Nader.
Consolidate: vote Gore for all it's worth. Vote against Bush.
j. garnett
flaming liberal pragmatist
_______________________________________________
Nettime-bold mailing list
Nettime-bold@nettime.org
http://www.nettime.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nettime-bold
-----Original Message-----
From: underbelly@newsgrist.com [mailto:underbelly@newsgrist.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2000 4:00 PM
To: nettime-l@bbs.thing.net
Subject: [Nettime-bold] Re: <nettime> Nader is important: get rid of
him!
Ivan Zassoursky wrote:
> [also To: campaign@votenader.org, CC: naderletters@moveon.org]
>
> <snip>
>
>
>
> Vote for Nader. It will make you feel better.
>
> ivan zassoursky
> __________________________________
great, just what we need: a bunch of politically naive, righteous
idealists running around *feeling better*. After Bush gets elected
and sets about the devastation of the environment in Alaska, the
right of women to choose, and a host of other thingswe all hold to
be dear, (not to mention a host of policy we don't even understand
or think about). I'm sure those feeling better might start to feel
pretty bad... Don't be fooled by Nader: he isn't so different from
these other guys running. He'll do anything to get ahead in some
way, just like them, including undermining Gore and his campaign.
Afterall, he *is* a politician. Nader's appeal to progressive-minded,
well-educated, disenfranchized liberals is manipulative and misleading;
it will make a difference, one very big difference, if Bush gets in.
This is so obvious and the appeal to 60s nostalgia so pathetic and
wrong-headed you'd think any toddler could point it out at a
distance. (And I used to really look up to Susan Sarandon); what we
need is pragmatism, not dreamy 60s revival idealism that will
remain just that. One thing that would help in this fight would be
to face up to what a simplistic, right-leaning, puritanical culture
this really is; the dream of Nader is exciting, it's radical, but
it's a dream. I don't buy that voting for him is an expediant measure
--not for an instant. As for *fear*: people are afraid of Gore
because he is intelligent, and an aristocrat (god-forbid) and
therefore not one of them. He represents a classic ego-threat to
the American Puritanical Everyman...
Keep the Republicans OUT.
Just do it.
This is a crucial election.
Don't throw it away. Don't vote Nader.
Consolidate: vote Gore for all it's worth. Vote against Bush.
j. garnett
flaming liberal pragmatist
_______________________________________________
Nettime-bold mailing list
Nettime-bold@nettime.org
http://www.nettime.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nettime-bold