| Allan Siegel on Tue, 6 Dec 2022 23:33:15 +0100 (CET) |
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| Re: <nettime> Moving Nettime to the Fediverse |
Hello all,
I think it is worth stating, again, that the folks who have
initiated this move stated the following:
"Nettime was founded at a time when, as quaint as it sounds, email was exciting. That's long since gone for those who experienced it, let alone for those who didn't. Discussion-oriented mailing lists like this are, in a word, over, technically *and* culturally. It's time to think more attentively about whether or how nettime can evolve beyond email and its peculiar 'list culture.'" It is a pretty concise critique and statement of their intentions; this is not simply change for the sake of change but rather an attempt to expand the discursive arena for the subjects/ideas that that are discussed on Nettime. I understand why people like this mailing list because it is a forum rather safely inhabited by friends and lurkers; this is fine for those that don't want to struggle with an developing form of discourse - the fedidiverse to me is kind a room where someone decides to open the windows and and let in some light and circulate the air. The move reflects the recognition of the fact that the dominant corporate, neoliberalized, forms of social media are under greater scrutiny these days (the Musk/Twitter scandal is just one more visible example); I think as a readily available source of non-MSM news Twitter served a valuable function and the current evolution of Mastodon and its numerous 'instances' is an arena not seeking to duplicate Twitter but rather define new forms of defining and practicing social media. To meld Nettime into this universe is not a simple task nor are there ready made formulas but I think it is reflects the endeavor to evolve the 'mailing list social media framework' on to an evolving public sphere which has both drawbacks and exciting possibilities. It brings Nettimers to a more diverse intriguing audience which I think is rather critical these days. best allan
folks,
i'll just chip in my 2 cents worth: i hear the different arguments, i see the problems of the nettime project as it is (just look at the apparent demographics of those responding to this thread!), and i would probably abstain from a vote on the issue just because i'm in more than two minds about it. nevertheless, i know that for me personally the move of nettime away from e-mail would mean that i would, after 25+ years, probably lose the connection. like others here, e-mail is the medium i like for this kind of communication, and i don't see myself scrolling through nettime postings on a social media channel. (i'm just presuming that i'd be confronted with "infinite scroll", which is perhaps the most depressing design feature of this still new 21st century. [i fear there's worse to come.])
a slightly more original point i can perhaps make is about technical (and archival) sustainability; check these out:
https://nettime.org/Lists-Archives/nettime-l-9510/msg00000.html
https://nettime.org/Lists-Archives/nettime-l-9511/threads.html
i know that simplicity and longevity are not values in themselves, but for people like some of us here, who have seen so many platformed promises come and go, it seems (to me) truly weird to believe that some 'instance' of X will be able to deliver better results (or some necessary change), without increasing the number of problems elsewhere, and without delivering this project down one more slippery slope of digital oblivion. (When those messages quoted above were posted and first archived, CompuServe and AOL were still competing internet superpowers...)
i guess my attitude is conservative. so what? i don't think that getting older, and growing older together, intra- and inter-generationally, is a problem in itself. - instead, i'd love to hear from the folks who are eager to get onto that other channel, or platform, and who want to sing an 'ode to Mastodon', one that can match the odes to E-Mail that have been sung here over the past days. i'd be glad to be encouraged and told that the grass is really (!) greener over there.
-a
On 2022-11-30 at 13:30 -05, quoth Ted Byfield# distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
<tedbyfield@gmail.com <mailto:tedbyfield@gmail.com>>:
> It's plainly true that we're hopping on the fediverse bandwagon,
> so questioning the wisdom of that kind of precipitous action is,
> without question, wise. (It's also true, though less visible,
> that it's only the most recent move we've weighed.) But that
> implies another question: is 'doing nothing' — or at least
> following the same path wise? In the short term, sure, but in
> the longer term no, I think. Doing that would all but guarantee
> the list's historical weaknesses would only become more
> ingrained, and with that the list would become more and more
> insular.
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