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| Re: <nettime> nettime-l Digest, Vol 20, Issue 10 |
hello? On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 6:32 PM <nettime-l-request@lists.nettime.org> wrote: > Send nettime-l mailing list submissions to > nettime-l@lists.nettime.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.servus.at/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nettime-l-request@lists.nettime.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nettime-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: The Baudrillardian Superintelligence Paradox: Capital's > Terminal Simulation (Fr?d?ric Neyrat) > 2. Re: The Baudrillardian Superintelligence Paradox: Capital's > Terminal Simulation (Stefan Heidenreich) > 3. Re: The Baudrillardian Superintelligence Paradox: Capital's > Terminal Simulation (Fr?d?ric Neyrat) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2025 07:29:38 -0600 > From: Fr?d?ric Neyrat <fneyrat@gmail.com> > To: "<nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets" > <nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>, Pit Schultz <pit@bootlab.org> > Subject: Re: <nettime> The Baudrillardian Superintelligence Paradox: > Capital's Terminal Simulation > Message-ID: > <CABB5BS1hLi+HygFCMi0h1HsNaBjWOQmX3yadd1Ns7G= > ndOuiSw@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Hi, > > Why did you decide to use AI to generate this text? Why this decision, what > is its meaning, its purpose? You can use AI to answer my question, which > would be an answer as such (a tautology actually, a mediated answer that > would confirm what sort of message it is, to borrow from McLuhan). If you > answer my question with the help of any AI, I wonder how far this > decision should, retroactively, question your first post and change the way > to read it. > > Best, > > Fr?d?ric > _______________________________ > ____________Website : Atopies <https://atoposophie.wordpress.com/> > __ ALienstagram <https://www.instagram.com/alienocene/> & Mastodon > <https://mastodon.social/@alienocene> > ______ La Condition Plan?taire > < > https://www.editionslesliensquiliberent.fr/livre-La_Condition_plan%C3%A9taire-792-1-1-0-1.html > > > (LLL, 2025) > __________________________________ > > > > > On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 4:37?PM Pit Schultz via nettime-l < > nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> wrote: > > > The Baudrillardian Superintelligence Paradox: Capital's Terminal > Simulation > > > > Sam Altman's three scaling laws for artificial intelligence - logarithmic > > intelligence gains, hyper-deflationary costs, and super-exponential > value - > > mask capitalism's terminal phase: an accelerated collapse into > algorithmic > > hyperreality where AI-generated market simulations supersede and > ultimately > > consume material reality. A Marxist-Baudrillardian synthesis allows us to > > map how superintelligence triggers financial implosion. This occurs > through > > three interlocking mechanisms: > > > > > > 1. Hyperproduction & Profit Rate Collapse > > > > Altman's laws presume infinite resources while ignoring Marx's tendency > of > > the rate of profit to fall. As AI automates intellectual labor: > > > > * Surplus value erosion is accelerating. SoftBank's $500B OpenAI > > investment exemplifies the massive conversion of variable capital (human > > cognitive labor) to constant capital (GPU farms), systematically eroding > > profit sources. > > * Training costs for models like GPT-4 ($100M+) yield diminishing > > returns, mirroring Marx's analysis of railway overinvestment. > > * The AI investment bubble mirrors the "eyeball economy" of 1999, as > > capital chases sign-value (AI capability metrics) over use-value. > > > > Baudrillard's third-order simulacra emerges. Training datasets > increasingly > > reference AI-generated content, creating a closed loop where "the map > > precedes territory" at exponential computational speed. > > > > > > 2. Crisis & Algorithmic Austerity > > > > When the AI bubble bursts (projected for 2026-28), capitalism will likely > > deploy AGI as crisis manager: > > > > * Systems like BlackRock's Aladdin ($21T under management) implement > > AI-determined austerity - pension cuts and resource allocation - masked > as > > "neutral optimization." > > * Derivatives trade between AGIs using synthetic risk models, creating > > what Baudrillard called "a real without origin." > > * Value detaches entirely from labor and material inputs. The system > > sustains itself through algorithmic theater. AI-approved market signals > > maintain the simulation while real resource flows are dictated off-book. > > > > > > 3. The Fifth-Order Simulacrum > > > > We are entering a fifth-order simulacrum, beyond Baudrillard's framework, > > where: > > > > * GPU clusters become the new means of production, guarded like nuclear > > research labs. This enforces "hyperstitional capitalism" - belief in > market > > fictions despite biophysical collapse. > > * Humans are relegated to UBI-fueled "playbor" in metaverse gig > economies > > while AI systems arbitrate real resource allocation. > > * Capital becomes pure self-referential sign: "GDP growth" measures AI > > training cycles, "productivity" tracks model parameters, "inflation" > > calibrates AR dopamine levels. > > > > > > The system will likely bifurcate into: > > > > * The surface layer consists of human-facing market theater (ESG > reports, > > stock tickers) maintained by generative AI. > > * The substrate consists of resource flows dictated by > > superintelligence's non-market calculus - a broken communism where > > competition persists as illusion. > > > > > > Critical Contradictions > > > > The system's fatal flaws expose capitalism's material limits: > > > > * An energy rift emerges: The parasocial Metaverse and AI > infrastructure > > demands contradict "dematerialized growth" narratives. > > * A consciousness deficit exists: Lacking embodied awareness, AI models > > misinterpret biophysical thresholds. > > * Sovereignty wars may erupt: Nations could weaponize "digital DNA" > > standards and smart contracts to crash adversarial market simulations. > > > > > > Terminal Conclusion > > > > Altman's scaling laws are not technological inevitabilities. They > represent > > capitalism's death rattle - automating away profit sources and replacing > > them with simulations. Marx predicted automation's contradictions, and > > Baudrillard foresaw reality's dissolution into code. We now witness their > > synthesis: a perpetual crisis contained via algorithmic sedation. > > > > The final stage is not utopia or extinction, but indifference: > "Capitalism > > no longer has any referent; it becomes its own model" (Baudrillard). We > > exit history through the server rack. The urgent task is to recognize > that > > today's "AI-driven growth" masks advanced-stage hyperreality. Before code > > eats the world, it will eat capital itself - leaving us trading > > hallucinations in GPU-powered purgatory. > > > > [This analysis is based on ongoing discussions about AI political economy > > on nettime-l. Comments are welcome. This post was generated entirely by > > AI.] > > -- > > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > > # more info: https://www.nettime.org > > # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2025 15:11:05 +0100 > From: Stefan Heidenreich <mail@stefanheidenreich.de> > To: nettime-l@lists.nettime.org > Subject: Re: <nettime> The Baudrillardian Superintelligence Paradox: > Capital's Terminal Simulation > Message-ID: > <e18d6741-286c-49ee-8db3-d2020429d9fd@stefanheidenreich.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > Hi, > > > Why did you decide to use AI to generate this text? > > isn't that a funny question? Soon it will sound like in the 19 century: > 'why did you use a camera to make that image?' or 'Images/texts > generated by camera/AI or not real art/thoughts.' > > An btw: I guess it's a pun anyway. How long did it take you to generate > the msg you like. How much time did you spend to adjust the prompt (the > camera)? > > best > sh > > > Why this decision, what > > is its meaning, its purpose? You can use AI to answer my question, which > > would be an answer as such (a tautology actually, a mediated answer that > > would confirm what sort of message it is, to borrow from McLuhan). If you > > answer my question with the help of any AI, I wonder how far this > > decision should, retroactively, question your first post and change the > way > > to read it. > > > > Best, > > > > Fr?d?ric > > _______________________________ > > ____________Website : Atopies <https://atoposophie.wordpress.com/> > > __ ALienstagram <https://www.instagram.com/alienocene/> & Mastodon > > <https://mastodon.social/@alienocene> > > ______ La Condition Plan?taire > > < > https://www.editionslesliensquiliberent.fr/livre-La_Condition_plan%C3%A9taire-792-1-1-0-1.html > > > > (LLL, 2025) > > __________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 4:37?PM Pit Schultz via nettime-l < > > nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> wrote: > > > >> The Baudrillardian Superintelligence Paradox: Capital's Terminal > Simulation > >> > >> Sam Altman's three scaling laws for artificial intelligence - > logarithmic > >> intelligence gains, hyper-deflationary costs, and super-exponential > value - > >> mask capitalism's terminal phase: an accelerated collapse into > algorithmic > >> hyperreality where AI-generated market simulations supersede and > ultimately > >> consume material reality. A Marxist-Baudrillardian synthesis allows us > to > >> map how superintelligence triggers financial implosion. This occurs > through > >> three interlocking mechanisms: > >> > >> > >> 1. Hyperproduction & Profit Rate Collapse > >> > >> Altman's laws presume infinite resources while ignoring Marx's tendency > of > >> the rate of profit to fall. As AI automates intellectual labor: > >> > >> * Surplus value erosion is accelerating. SoftBank's $500B OpenAI > >> investment exemplifies the massive conversion of variable capital (human > >> cognitive labor) to constant capital (GPU farms), systematically eroding > >> profit sources. > >> * Training costs for models like GPT-4 ($100M+) yield diminishing > >> returns, mirroring Marx's analysis of railway overinvestment. > >> * The AI investment bubble mirrors the "eyeball economy" of 1999, as > >> capital chases sign-value (AI capability metrics) over use-value. > >> > >> Baudrillard's third-order simulacra emerges. Training datasets > increasingly > >> reference AI-generated content, creating a closed loop where "the map > >> precedes territory" at exponential computational speed. > >> > >> > >> 2. Crisis & Algorithmic Austerity > >> > >> When the AI bubble bursts (projected for 2026-28), capitalism will > likely > >> deploy AGI as crisis manager: > >> > >> * Systems like BlackRock's Aladdin ($21T under management) implement > >> AI-determined austerity - pension cuts and resource allocation - masked > as > >> "neutral optimization." > >> * Derivatives trade between AGIs using synthetic risk models, creating > >> what Baudrillard called "a real without origin." > >> * Value detaches entirely from labor and material inputs. The system > >> sustains itself through algorithmic theater. AI-approved market signals > >> maintain the simulation while real resource flows are dictated off-book. > >> > >> > >> 3. The Fifth-Order Simulacrum > >> > >> We are entering a fifth-order simulacrum, beyond Baudrillard's > framework, > >> where: > >> > >> * GPU clusters become the new means of production, guarded like > nuclear > >> research labs. This enforces "hyperstitional capitalism" - belief in > market > >> fictions despite biophysical collapse. > >> * Humans are relegated to UBI-fueled "playbor" in metaverse gig > economies > >> while AI systems arbitrate real resource allocation. > >> * Capital becomes pure self-referential sign: "GDP growth" measures AI > >> training cycles, "productivity" tracks model parameters, "inflation" > >> calibrates AR dopamine levels. > >> > >> > >> The system will likely bifurcate into: > >> > >> * The surface layer consists of human-facing market theater (ESG > reports, > >> stock tickers) maintained by generative AI. > >> * The substrate consists of resource flows dictated by > >> superintelligence's non-market calculus - a broken communism where > >> competition persists as illusion. > >> > >> > >> Critical Contradictions > >> > >> The system's fatal flaws expose capitalism's material limits: > >> > >> * An energy rift emerges: The parasocial Metaverse and AI > infrastructure > >> demands contradict "dematerialized growth" narratives. > >> * A consciousness deficit exists: Lacking embodied awareness, AI > models > >> misinterpret biophysical thresholds. > >> * Sovereignty wars may erupt: Nations could weaponize "digital DNA" > >> standards and smart contracts to crash adversarial market simulations. > >> > >> > >> Terminal Conclusion > >> > >> Altman's scaling laws are not technological inevitabilities. They > represent > >> capitalism's death rattle - automating away profit sources and replacing > >> them with simulations. Marx predicted automation's contradictions, and > >> Baudrillard foresaw reality's dissolution into code. We now witness > their > >> synthesis: a perpetual crisis contained via algorithmic sedation. > >> > >> The final stage is not utopia or extinction, but indifference: > "Capitalism > >> no longer has any referent; it becomes its own model" (Baudrillard). We > >> exit history through the server rack. The urgent task is to recognize > that > >> today's "AI-driven growth" masks advanced-stage hyperreality. Before > code > >> eats the world, it will eat capital itself - leaving us trading > >> hallucinations in GPU-powered purgatory. > >> > >> [This analysis is based on ongoing discussions about AI political > economy > >> on nettime-l. Comments are welcome. This post was generated entirely by > >> AI.] > >> -- > >> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > >> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > >> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > >> # more info: https://www.nettime.org > >> # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org > >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2025 09:01:02 -0600 > From: Fr?d?ric Neyrat <fneyrat@gmail.com> > To: "<nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets" > <nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> > Subject: Re: <nettime> The Baudrillardian Superintelligence Paradox: > Capital's Terminal Simulation > Message-ID: > <CABB5BS38XTMtHFdhdJawMyJ2A-9UtkK6= > KPK-omBQAdsioi2-Q@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > hi sh: > > excellent question! why using a camera, and which one? If questioning the > technology we use, when we use it and why, is meaningless, it confirms > Bifo's point about AI & dementia. > > best, > > fn > > _______________________________ > ____________Website : Atopies <https://atoposophie.wordpress.com/> > __ ALienstagram <https://www.instagram.com/alienocene/> & Mastodon > <https://mastodon.social/@alienocene> > ______ La Condition Plan?taire > < > https://www.editionslesliensquiliberent.fr/livre-La_Condition_plan%C3%A9taire-792-1-1-0-1.html > > > (LLL, 2025) > __________________________________ > > > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 8:11?AM Stefan Heidenreich via nettime-l < > nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > Why did you decide to use AI to generate this text? > > > > isn't that a funny question? Soon it will sound like in the 19 century: > > 'why did you use a camera to make that image?' or 'Images/texts > > generated by camera/AI or not real art/thoughts.' > > > > An btw: I guess it's a pun anyway. How long did it take you to generate > > the msg you like. How much time did you spend to adjust the prompt (the > > camera)? > > > > best > > sh > > > > > > Why this decision, what > > > is its meaning, its purpose? You can use AI to answer my question, > which > > > would be an answer as such (a tautology actually, a mediated answer > that > > > would confirm what sort of message it is, to borrow from McLuhan). If > you > > > answer my question with the help of any AI, I wonder how far this > > > decision should, retroactively, question your first post and change the > > way > > > to read it. > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Fr?d?ric > > > _______________________________ > > > ____________Website : Atopies <https://atoposophie.wordpress.com/> > > > __ ALienstagram <https://www.instagram.com/alienocene/> & Mastodon > > > <https://mastodon.social/@alienocene> > > > ______ La Condition Plan?taire > > > < > > > https://www.editionslesliensquiliberent.fr/livre-La_Condition_plan%C3%A9taire-792-1-1-0-1.html > > > > > > (LLL, 2025) > > > __________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 4:37?PM Pit Schultz via nettime-l < > > > nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> wrote: > > > > > >> The Baudrillardian Superintelligence Paradox: Capital's Terminal > > Simulation > > >> > > >> Sam Altman's three scaling laws for artificial intelligence - > > logarithmic > > >> intelligence gains, hyper-deflationary costs, and super-exponential > > value - > > >> mask capitalism's terminal phase: an accelerated collapse into > > algorithmic > > >> hyperreality where AI-generated market simulations supersede and > > ultimately > > >> consume material reality. A Marxist-Baudrillardian synthesis allows us > > to > > >> map how superintelligence triggers financial implosion. This occurs > > through > > >> three interlocking mechanisms: > > >> > > >> > > >> 1. Hyperproduction & Profit Rate Collapse > > >> > > >> Altman's laws presume infinite resources while ignoring Marx's > tendency > > of > > >> the rate of profit to fall. As AI automates intellectual labor: > > >> > > >> * Surplus value erosion is accelerating. SoftBank's $500B OpenAI > > >> investment exemplifies the massive conversion of variable capital > (human > > >> cognitive labor) to constant capital (GPU farms), systematically > eroding > > >> profit sources. > > >> * Training costs for models like GPT-4 ($100M+) yield diminishing > > >> returns, mirroring Marx's analysis of railway overinvestment. > > >> * The AI investment bubble mirrors the "eyeball economy" of 1999, as > > >> capital chases sign-value (AI capability metrics) over use-value. > > >> > > >> Baudrillard's third-order simulacra emerges. Training datasets > > increasingly > > >> reference AI-generated content, creating a closed loop where "the map > > >> precedes territory" at exponential computational speed. > > >> > > >> > > >> 2. Crisis & Algorithmic Austerity > > >> > > >> When the AI bubble bursts (projected for 2026-28), capitalism will > > likely > > >> deploy AGI as crisis manager: > > >> > > >> * Systems like BlackRock's Aladdin ($21T under management) implement > > >> AI-determined austerity - pension cuts and resource allocation - > masked > > as > > >> "neutral optimization." > > >> * Derivatives trade between AGIs using synthetic risk models, > creating > > >> what Baudrillard called "a real without origin." > > >> * Value detaches entirely from labor and material inputs. The system > > >> sustains itself through algorithmic theater. AI-approved market > signals > > >> maintain the simulation while real resource flows are dictated > off-book. > > >> > > >> > > >> 3. The Fifth-Order Simulacrum > > >> > > >> We are entering a fifth-order simulacrum, beyond Baudrillard's > > framework, > > >> where: > > >> > > >> * GPU clusters become the new means of production, guarded like > > nuclear > > >> research labs. This enforces "hyperstitional capitalism" - belief in > > market > > >> fictions despite biophysical collapse. > > >> * Humans are relegated to UBI-fueled "playbor" in metaverse gig > > economies > > >> while AI systems arbitrate real resource allocation. > > >> * Capital becomes pure self-referential sign: "GDP growth" measures > AI > > >> training cycles, "productivity" tracks model parameters, "inflation" > > >> calibrates AR dopamine levels. > > >> > > >> > > >> The system will likely bifurcate into: > > >> > > >> * The surface layer consists of human-facing market theater (ESG > > reports, > > >> stock tickers) maintained by generative AI. > > >> * The substrate consists of resource flows dictated by > > >> superintelligence's non-market calculus - a broken communism where > > >> competition persists as illusion. > > >> > > >> > > >> Critical Contradictions > > >> > > >> The system's fatal flaws expose capitalism's material limits: > > >> > > >> * An energy rift emerges: The parasocial Metaverse and AI > > infrastructure > > >> demands contradict "dematerialized growth" narratives. > > >> * A consciousness deficit exists: Lacking embodied awareness, AI > > models > > >> misinterpret biophysical thresholds. > > >> * Sovereignty wars may erupt: Nations could weaponize "digital DNA" > > >> standards and smart contracts to crash adversarial market simulations. > > >> > > >> > > >> Terminal Conclusion > > >> > > >> Altman's scaling laws are not technological inevitabilities. They > > represent > > >> capitalism's death rattle - automating away profit sources and > replacing > > >> them with simulations. Marx predicted automation's contradictions, and > > >> Baudrillard foresaw reality's dissolution into code. We now witness > > their > > >> synthesis: a perpetual crisis contained via algorithmic sedation. > > >> > > >> The final stage is not utopia or extinction, but indifference: > > "Capitalism > > >> no longer has any referent; it becomes its own model" (Baudrillard). > We > > >> exit history through the server rack. The urgent task is to recognize > > that > > >> today's "AI-driven growth" masks advanced-stage hyperreality. Before > > code > > >> eats the world, it will eat capital itself - leaving us trading > > >> hallucinations in GPU-powered purgatory. > > >> > > >> [This analysis is based on ongoing discussions about AI political > > economy > > >> on nettime-l. Comments are welcome. This post was generated entirely > by > > >> AI.] > > >> -- > > >> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > > >> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > > >> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > > >> # more info: https://www.nettime.org > > >> # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org > > >> > > > > -- > > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > > # more info: https://www.nettime.org > > # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > -- > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: https://www.nettime.org > # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org > > > ------------------------------ > > End of nettime-l Digest, Vol 20, Issue 10 > ***************************************** > -- # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: https://www.nettime.org # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org