| Brian Holmes via nettime-l on Thu, 23 Jan 2025 23:49:34 +0100 (CET) |
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| Re: <nettime> nettime-l Digest, Vol 19, Issue 5 |
Concerning the guy in the restaurant who had the Trump stickers and said it was just for fun, I told him it's not fun, it's fascist. The brutality is evident and likely to grow much worse. It's no accident Musk gave a double Nazi salute. They are trying to create the kind of fanaticism necessary to beat the left out of existence and deport millions of people. It is not yet certain they can do that, but they are trying. Their rhetoric is increasingly fascist. However, there are many words to describe our uncertain present and I would not discount the people talking about authoritarian liberalism. The fascist regimes of the twenties and thirties took form in a period when the world market was weakened by WWI, then broken by the crisis of 1929. They were national-popular regimes with state-controlled economies and colonial possessions, seeking expanded forms of autarky. Today all the advanced economies are deeply entwined with each other. The continued growth of the US economy is crucially dependent on its exchanges with Canada, Mexico and China, to name only three major players. Breaking that entanglement would precipitate a heavily inflationary economic crisis, most likely followed by a new world war. This is not what Curtis Yarvin and his Silicon Valley acolytes are seeking. But they are not all powerful. I reckon it will takes months or possibly years to see which direction this thing is really going. In the meantime, it is politically worth saying that if fulfilled in action, the current rhetoric can only lead to economic crisis, world war and ecological breakdown. Words matter, so use the ones that will help your interlocutor understand these fundamental dangers. On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 6:43 PM Michael Benson via nettime-l < nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> wrote: > As I recall when we had a similar debate a couple years ago I advocated for > Timothy Snyder's term "oligarchical fascism," but actually that phrase > presupposes that prior fascism had less of an oligarchical aspect, which > isn't quite right. After all, the manifest complicity of German and > Italian industrialists is well known, to say nothing of Henry Ford's eager > support and provision to Adolf et al of the ideological underpinnings of > an ethnically exclusionary state. > > I personally think that we don't need much new "analytical effort" to > identify what we can plainly see, namely a global revival of fascist > anti-immigrant reactionary politics. If it smells like a fascist and quacks > like a fascist and spouts crude racist bigotry like a fascist, let's call > it a fascist. > > This is not a "weak... metaphorical association with past ideologies," to > my mind. And "authoritarian liberalism" is weak tea as phrases go. > > It's fascism. Sometimes a cigar really is a cigar. > > Michael > > > > On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 at 12:23, <nettime-l-request@lists.nettime.org> wrote: > > > Send nettime-l mailing list submissions to > > nettime-l@lists.nettime.org > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://lists.servus.at/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > nettime-l-request@lists.nettime.org > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of nettime-l digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: So what's the use of art, theory, activism? (Joseph Rabie) > > 2. Re: So what's the use of art, theory, activism? (Fr?d?ric Neyrat) > > 3. Re: So what's the use of art, theory, activism? (Brian Holmes) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 12:05:15 +0100 > > From: Joseph Rabie <joe@overmydeadbody.org> > > To: "<nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > > collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets" > > <nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> > > Subject: Re: <nettime> So what's the use of art, theory, activism? > > Message-ID: <1213F47D-6FEB-462D-B907-522AA34956C6@overmydeadbody.org> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > > Dear all, > > > > Are we dealing with Fascism?or by labelling all the dark things that are > > currently going down ?fascism?, are we simply giving voice to our own > > indignation by calling names, rather than making the analytical effort to > > specify what it really is? > > > > Personally, I do not think that ?fascism? is an adequate label for the > > current variety of totalitarianism that is enveloping the world, in the > > hands of Trump, Orban, Meloni, Putin, Netanyahu, Khamenei, Xi Jinping and > > others. Macron is using the term ?Reactionary International? to > > characterise this, but isn't Macron himself part of the problem, via his > > own narcissism, conservatism and authoritarian practise of power? > > > > The characteristics of this current ?fascism? have been discussed > > extensively on Nettime over the past years. With the election of Trump, > the > > most salient feature is the consecration of a ruthless, all-powerful > > oligarchy. But also the immediate attack on LGBT+ rights, immigration, > via > > the promotion of white-suprematist biblical values. And the position that > > the climate will take care of itself, because those with the means will > > always find a technical fix (excluding Los Angeles democrats). > > > > What do we call this: Magaism? Xism? Too Americo-centric, perhaps. Any > > suggestions? > > > > What is happening is sufficiently specific to merit its own term, rather > > than letting it hide behind some weak (but self-satisfying) metaphorical > > association with past ideologies. Even though it might share aspects, but > > from which it is very different. > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > Le 23 janv. 2025 ? 10:31, Allan Siegel via nettime-l < > > nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> a ?crit : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 22/01/2025 23:50, Brian Holmes via nettime-l wrote: > > >> "And I am now an elder, who must > > >> turn experience - even the experience of failures - into something > > valuable > > >> for present and coming generations." > > > Thank you Brian for your perseverance! It is invaluable during these > > times. And, this reminder from the writings of Umberto Eco... > > > best > > > allan > > > > > > "Ur-Fascism is based upon a/selective populism/, a qualitative > populism, > > one might say. In a democracy, the citizens have individual rights, but > the > > citizens in their entirety have a political impact only from a > quantitative > > point of view ? one follows the decisions of the majority. For > Ur-Fascism, > > however, individuals as individuals have no rights, and the People is > > conceived as a quality, a monolithic entity expressing the Common Will. > > Since no large quantity of human beings can have a common will, the > Leader > > pretends to be their interpreter. Having lost their power of delegation, > > citizens do not act; they are only called on to play the role of the > > People. Thus the People is only a theatrical fiction. To have a good > > instance of qualitative populism we no longer need the Piazza Venezia in > > Rome or the Nuremberg Stadium. There is in our future a TV or Internet > > populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens > > can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the > > People. > > > > > > Because of its qualitative populism Ur-Fascism must be/against ?rotten? > > parliamentary governments/. One of the first sentences uttered by > Mussolini > > in the Italian parliament was ?I could have transformed this deaf and > > gloomy place into a bivouac for my maniples? ? ?maniples? being a > > subdivision of the traditional Roman legion. As a matter of fact, he > > immediately found better housing for his maniples, but a little later he > > liquidated the parliament. Wherever a politician casts doubt on the > > legitimacy of a parliament because it no longer represents the Voice of > the > > People, we can smell Ur-Fascism." from UR-FASCISM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > > > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > > > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > > > # more info: https://www.nettime.org > > > # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 10:20:39 -0600 > > From: Fr?d?ric Neyrat <fneyrat@gmail.com> > > To: "<nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > > collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets" > > <nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> > > Subject: Re: <nettime> So what's the use of art, theory, activism? > > Message-ID: > > <CABB5BS13VQkcx8i1x0gntYSpZz9+-iR=XBdY2UyhcOM= > > AYPwjA@mail.gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > ...some people call it (= what's happening in the US) > > "reactionary accelerationism," a good way I think to encapsulate the > DT-EM > > monster... > > > > fr?d?ric > > > > _______________________________ > > ____________Website : Atopies <https://atoposophie.wordpress.com/> > > __ ALienstagram <https://www.instagram.com/alienocene/> > > ______ La Condition Plan?taire > > < > > > https://www.editionslesliensquiliberent.fr/livre-La_Condition_plan%C3%A9taire-792-1-1-0-1.html > > > > > (LLL, 2025) > > __________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 9:20?AM Joseph Rabie via nettime-l < > > nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> wrote: > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > Are we dealing with Fascism?or by labelling all the dark things that > are > > > currently going down ?fascism?, are we simply giving voice to our own > > > indignation by calling names, rather than making the analytical effort > to > > > specify what it really is? > > > > > > Personally, I do not think that ?fascism? is an adequate label for the > > > current variety of totalitarianism that is enveloping the world, in the > > > hands of Trump, Orban, Meloni, Putin, Netanyahu, Khamenei, Xi Jinping > and > > > others. Macron is using the term ?Reactionary International? to > > > characterise this, but isn't Macron himself part of the problem, via > his > > > own narcissism, conservatism and authoritarian practise of power? > > > > > > The characteristics of this current ?fascism? have been discussed > > > extensively on Nettime over the past years. With the election of Trump, > > the > > > most salient feature is the consecration of a ruthless, all-powerful > > > oligarchy. But also the immediate attack on LGBT+ rights, immigration, > > via > > > the promotion of white-suprematist biblical values. And the position > that > > > the climate will take care of itself, because those with the means will > > > always find a technical fix (excluding Los Angeles democrats). > > > > > > What do we call this: Magaism? Xism? Too Americo-centric, perhaps. Any > > > suggestions? > > > > > > What is happening is sufficiently specific to merit its own term, > rather > > > than letting it hide behind some weak (but self-satisfying) > metaphorical > > > association with past ideologies. Even though it might share aspects, > but > > > from which it is very different. > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > > > > > Le 23 janv. 2025 ? 10:31, Allan Siegel via nettime-l < > > > nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> a ?crit : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 22/01/2025 23:50, Brian Holmes via nettime-l wrote: > > > >> "And I am now an elder, who must > > > >> turn experience - even the experience of failures - into something > > > valuable > > > >> for present and coming generations." > > > > Thank you Brian for your perseverance! It is invaluable during these > > > times. And, this reminder from the writings of Umberto Eco... > > > > best > > > > allan > > > > > > > > "Ur-Fascism is based upon a/selective populism/, a qualitative > > populism, > > > one might say. In a democracy, the citizens have individual rights, but > > the > > > citizens in their entirety have a political impact only from a > > quantitative > > > point of view ? one follows the decisions of the majority. For > > Ur-Fascism, > > > however, individuals as individuals have no rights, and the People is > > > conceived as a quality, a monolithic entity expressing the Common Will. > > > Since no large quantity of human beings can have a common will, the > > Leader > > > pretends to be their interpreter. Having lost their power of > delegation, > > > citizens do not act; they are only called on to play the role of the > > > People. Thus the People is only a theatrical fiction. To have a good > > > instance of qualitative populism we no longer need the Piazza Venezia > in > > > Rome or the Nuremberg Stadium. There is in our future a TV or Internet > > > populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of > citizens > > > can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People. > > > > > > > > Because of its qualitative populism Ur-Fascism must be/against > ?rotten? > > > parliamentary governments/. One of the first sentences uttered by > > Mussolini > > > in the Italian parliament was ?I could have transformed this deaf and > > > gloomy place into a bivouac for my maniples? ? ?maniples? being a > > > subdivision of the traditional Roman legion. As a matter of fact, he > > > immediately found better housing for his maniples, but a little later > he > > > liquidated the parliament. Wherever a politician casts doubt on the > > > legitimacy of a parliament because it no longer represents the Voice of > > the > > > People, we can smell Ur-Fascism." from UR-FASCISM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > > > > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > > > > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > > > > # more info: https://www.nettime.org > > > > # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org > > > > > > -- > > > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > > > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > > > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > > > # more info: https://www.nettime.org > > > # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 18:21:48 +0100 > > From: Brian Holmes <bhcontinentaldrift@gmail.com> > > To: "<nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > > collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets" > > <nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> > > Subject: Re: <nettime> So what's the use of art, theory, activism? > > Message-ID: > > < > > CANuiTgzRtKd3N4RroSk0XbmgNhszwrRzATZc-7Zu_40FXiS+Lg@mail.gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > Joe, Fred, > > > > It's a good question. Political theorists are speaking of "authoritarian > > liberalism" - where liberalism means it's still oriented to the global > > market, and authoritarianism is just what it says. > > > > It's worth adding that many thinkers (Wendy Brown, but not only) > attribute > > the popular embrace of authoritarian liberalism to declining faith in the > > capacity of democracy to represent constituents and solve problems. > > > > I don't think we yet know what Trump 2 is made of. His talk is violent > like > > 1930s fascists. In a month or two that issue will become more clear. For > > now it's wiser to expect the worst. > > > > courage, Brian > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 5:21?PM Fr?d?ric Neyrat via nettime-l < > > nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> wrote: > > > > > ...some people call it (= what's happening in the US) > > > "reactionary accelerationism," a good way I think to encapsulate the > > DT-EM > > > monster... > > > > > > fr?d?ric > > > > > > _______________________________ > > > ____________Website : Atopies <https://atoposophie.wordpress.com/> > > > __ ALienstagram <https://www.instagram.com/alienocene/> > > > ______ La Condition Plan?taire > > > < > > > > > > https://www.editionslesliensquiliberent.fr/livre-La_Condition_plan%C3%A9taire-792-1-1-0-1.html > > > > > > > (LLL, 2025) > > > __________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 9:20?AM Joseph Rabie via nettime-l < > > > nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > Are we dealing with Fascism?or by labelling all the dark things that > > are > > > > currently going down ?fascism?, are we simply giving voice to our own > > > > indignation by calling names, rather than making the analytical > effort > > to > > > > specify what it really is? > > > > > > > > Personally, I do not think that ?fascism? is an adequate label for > the > > > > current variety of totalitarianism that is enveloping the world, in > the > > > > hands of Trump, Orban, Meloni, Putin, Netanyahu, Khamenei, Xi Jinping > > and > > > > others. Macron is using the term ?Reactionary International? to > > > > characterise this, but isn't Macron himself part of the problem, via > > his > > > > own narcissism, conservatism and authoritarian practise of power? > > > > > > > > The characteristics of this current ?fascism? have been discussed > > > > extensively on Nettime over the past years. With the election of > Trump, > > > the > > > > most salient feature is the consecration of a ruthless, all-powerful > > > > oligarchy. But also the immediate attack on LGBT+ rights, > immigration, > > > via > > > > the promotion of white-suprematist biblical values. And the position > > that > > > > the climate will take care of itself, because those with the means > will > > > > always find a technical fix (excluding Los Angeles democrats). > > > > > > > > What do we call this: Magaism? Xism? Too Americo-centric, perhaps. > Any > > > > suggestions? > > > > > > > > What is happening is sufficiently specific to merit its own term, > > rather > > > > than letting it hide behind some weak (but self-satisfying) > > metaphorical > > > > association with past ideologies. Even though it might share aspects, > > but > > > > from which it is very different. > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Le 23 janv. 2025 ? 10:31, Allan Siegel via nettime-l < > > > > nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> a ?crit : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 22/01/2025 23:50, Brian Holmes via nettime-l wrote: > > > > >> "And I am now an elder, who must > > > > >> turn experience - even the experience of failures - into something > > > > valuable > > > > >> for present and coming generations." > > > > > Thank you Brian for your perseverance! It is invaluable during > these > > > > times. And, this reminder from the writings of Umberto Eco... > > > > > best > > > > > allan > > > > > > > > > > "Ur-Fascism is based upon a/selective populism/, a qualitative > > > populism, > > > > one might say. In a democracy, the citizens have individual rights, > but > > > the > > > > citizens in their entirety have a political impact only from a > > > quantitative > > > > point of view ? one follows the decisions of the majority. For > > > Ur-Fascism, > > > > however, individuals as individuals have no rights, and the People is > > > > conceived as a quality, a monolithic entity expressing the Common > Will. > > > > Since no large quantity of human beings can have a common will, the > > > Leader > > > > pretends to be their interpreter. Having lost their power of > > delegation, > > > > citizens do not act; they are only called on to play the role of the > > > > People. Thus the People is only a theatrical fiction. To have a good > > > > instance of qualitative populism we no longer need the Piazza Venezia > > in > > > > Rome or the Nuremberg Stadium. There is in our future a TV or > Internet > > > > populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of > > citizens > > > > can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People. > > > > > > > > > > Because of its qualitative populism Ur-Fascism must be/against > > ?rotten? > > > > parliamentary governments/. One of the first sentences uttered by > > > Mussolini > > > > in the Italian parliament was ?I could have transformed this deaf and > > > > gloomy place into a bivouac for my maniples? ? ?maniples? being a > > > > subdivision of the traditional Roman legion. As a matter of fact, he > > > > immediately found better housing for his maniples, but a little later > > he > > > > liquidated the parliament. Wherever a politician casts doubt on the > > > > legitimacy of a parliament because it no longer represents the Voice > of > > > the > > > > People, we can smell Ur-Fascism." from UR-FASCISM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > > > > > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > > > > > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > > > > > # more info: https://www.nettime.org > > > > > # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org > > > > > > > > -- > > > > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > > > > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > > > > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > > > > # more info: https://www.nettime.org > > > > # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org > > > > > > > -- > > > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > > > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > > > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > > > # more info: https://www.nettime.org > > > # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Subject: Digest Footer > > > > -- > > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > > # more info: https://www.nettime.org > > # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of nettime-l Digest, Vol 19, Issue 5 > > **************************************** > > > > > -- > Michael Benson > *Kinetikon Pictures * > michael-benson.net > kinpix2001@gmail.com > -- > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: https://www.nettime.org > # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org > -- # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: https://www.nettime.org # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org